tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post112425687467050057..comments2023-09-19T19:45:50.854+12:00Comments on Spanblather: playing electoral catch 22Spanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16896745511007816190noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1124689653214801062005-08-22T17:47:00.000+12:002005-08-22T17:47:00.000+12:00If by engineering an alliance, you mean effectivel...If by engineering an alliance, you mean effectively winding up the Alliance Party and gettting its members to campaign for the Maori Party instead, yes. Most of the membership were reluctant to take such a radical step before knowing whether the Maori Party was likely to, say, oppose civil unions, defend Mugabe, propose tax cuts for the rich, and consider a coalition with National.<BR/><BR/>Making it tough for new parties to get in is fine, but it shouldn't be impossible. Building a party and gaining mass support is quite hard enough without being written off by the media and an electoral system that punishes voters for supporting small parties.Commie Mutant Traitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06632923951984248888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1124689114612490212005-08-22T17:38:00.000+12:002005-08-22T17:38:00.000+12:00isn't it interesting CMT how everyone says "go for...isn't it interesting CMT how everyone says "go for an electorate seat" but then no one can suggest one? reminds me of last time i had a conversation of this ilk on here:<BR/>http://spanblather.blogspot.com/2005/06/which-party-should-lefties-head-to.html<BR/><BR/>I've had many a conversation with well-meaning Labourites who really want the Alliance back in Parliament, but actually don't want us to win any of their electorates or take any of their vote. Can't have it both ways folks - if the Alliance gets back in it will be partly due to votes from Labour - be they electorate or list. <BR/><BR/>T - i wonder if lowering the threshold would actually mean that in the medium term people would be more careful about their votes?<BR/><BR/>Rich - yes McCarten was supposed to be working on something of that ilk. He tried to get the Alliance to basically merge with the Maori Party about a year ago, I did blog about it a bit last year if you care to trawl the archives :-) As to what he is doing now - I think he has an idea for a new party, built around a Workers' Charter that SWO are involved with, but they are waiting until after the election.Spanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16896745511007816190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1124671810235400652005-08-22T12:50:00.000+12:002005-08-22T12:50:00.000+12:00Wasn't Matt McCarten trying to engineer some sort ...Wasn't Matt McCarten trying to engineer some sort of alliance (small A) with the Maori party?<BR/><BR/>Apart from the Alliance, most of the other minor parties range from mildly deluded to dangerously insane. In my meaner moods I think that if we sifted the ballots and locked up all the NF voters the country would be a nicer place.Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17092996828683002246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1124615235773856772005-08-21T21:07:00.000+12:002005-08-21T21:07:00.000+12:00I'm in support of making it pretty touch for new/s...I'm in support of making it pretty touch for new/small parties to get in.<BR/><BR/>It makes life, once Parliament is in session, far more stable. Sure, life is hard - but that makes new party leaders/members hardened representatives once they get in.Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11526313151401532148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1124447637551066012005-08-19T22:33:00.000+12:002005-08-19T22:33:00.000+12:00Bascially, to win an electorate seat, you need to ...Bascially, to win an electorate seat, you need to convince the major party (Nats or Lab) to allow you to have it.<BR/><BR/>Unless you represent a threat to them, they aren't going to do it. <BR/><BR/>However, I'm more inclined now to believe ACT will make it back in, and Winston First could go out. The ever-increasing hostility of National and Labour to Winston, (and National's xenophobic immigration policy taking wind out of his sail) and ACT's campaign against Winston, coupled with extremely negative press speculation about who he's going to pick, all seems to have collpased their party vote. Certainly their intention of being a clear third party has been blown away.<BR/><BR/>The Greens will be the third party in NZ politics - I think they will get higher than 8%.Moneohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01733709291703816133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1124413838672760302005-08-19T13:10:00.000+12:002005-08-19T13:10:00.000+12:00Focusing on a winnable electorate would make sense...Focusing on a winnable electorate would make sense, if there was one. Anyone care to suggest a specific electorate that could conceivably elect an Alliance MP? And there's no point in having representation in parliament if, like Anderton, it doesn't actually represent the party, but votes against the party's principles.Commie Mutant Traitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06632923951984248888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1124348840504743362005-08-18T19:07:00.000+12:002005-08-18T19:07:00.000+12:00I agree with the sentiment - it looks certain that...I agree with the sentiment - it looks certain that another party is going to slip out of Parliament this election (although I doubt you will miss them, much.)<BR/><BR/>Parliament's diversity since 1999 has meant more issues go from the fringe to mainstream. E.g. ACTs time limits on Treaty Claims is now Labour policy and the Alliance's reducing Student Debt has even been picked up by National. While much watered down, the 'radical' parties paved the way for these policies to be picked up by mainstream parties.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03143204319427258454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1124345141775770902005-08-18T18:05:00.000+12:002005-08-18T18:05:00.000+12:00Perhaps you guys need to focus on one particular e...Perhaps you guys need to focus on one particular electroate seat that looks like it could be won and pour all your resources into that, and campaign for the party vote in other electorates. I personally think that small partys spread their resources too thinly, when they should pick one electorate and focus on that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1124333404555431142005-08-18T14:50:00.000+12:002005-08-18T14:50:00.000+12:00that last sentence should say "To varying extents ...that last sentence should say "To varying extents all of the third parties EXCEPT the Greens..."Spanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16896745511007816190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1124333301119056602005-08-18T14:48:00.000+12:002005-08-18T14:48:00.000+12:00we certainly gave it a good shot in 2002 anon - La...we certainly gave it a good shot in 2002 anon - Laila Harre in Waitakere. <BR/><BR/>Anderton has certain advantages in Wigram that any new candidate is not going to have, and Turia shares most of them - well entrenched, well resourced (by Parliamentary services, eg staff), well known (both in the seat and nationally), able to be a full time candidate at crucial times, and frankly basically endorsed by Labour (obviously this is where Turia differs). <BR/><BR/>While I do think winning a seat is one of the strongest strategies for the Alliance to get back in, it has to be a long term strategy. And again it is one that would benefit greatly from a dosh injection - a candidate who could afford to take considerable time off from any work commitments they have to campaign in the seat and get their profile up, the money to regularly leaflet every household in the electorate, resources to have a website, a phone line, business cards, etc. <BR/><BR/>It's not impossible, but it is hard, harder when you can't attract big money (or even medium money) from corporates. I tend to think that the Alliance had it's best chance to win an electorate in 2002, with Laila - high profile candidate, the under dog advantage, relatively large amount of money, national and local media coverage easy to get, some parliamentary resources, etc. <BR/><BR/>The other problem with hanging your hat on a candidate is ego. To varying extents all of the third parties the Greens have had problems because of this.Spanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16896745511007816190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1124326781612561672005-08-18T12:59:00.000+12:002005-08-18T12:59:00.000+12:00This might be re-hashing something that you've alr...This might be re-hashing something that you've already done to death, but didn't the alliance have parliamentary representation, and choose to shoot itself in the foot and get rid of that representation (anderton).<BR/><BR/>The way for a small party to get into parliament is really simple, and in fact, the answer is right under yor noses. Win an electorate seat. Progressive Coalition did it. The Maori Party is going to do it. <BR/><BR/>You should do it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1124320613512677762005-08-18T11:16:00.000+12:002005-08-18T11:16:00.000+12:00The Alliance's opening statement got some coverage...The Alliance's opening statement got some coverage in a story on National's "taxathon" ads yesterday - but only in print, not on TV. And other than that, I haven't seen anything.Idiot/Savanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993069909613708957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1124312338348931222005-08-18T08:58:00.000+12:002005-08-18T08:58:00.000+12:00With the 5% threshold, I agree the system is loade...With the 5% threshold, I agree the system is loaded against small parties. ACT is the only party that has been elected without already having an MP - but we did have high profile former MPs.<BR/><BR/>Over time, if the rules don't change, it will probably crystallize into a two or three party system again.<BR/><BR/>It is possible that a long-standing MP with strong electorate support could break away and form a new party, as Peter Dunne did.<BR/><BR/>The expiry of the electoral integrity act will make this easier.<BR/><BR/>The alliance really needs to find a popular left-leaning Labour MP with a big electorate majority and try to persuade them to defect.Nigel Kearneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04810873665345046994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1124290234931617262005-08-18T02:50:00.000+12:002005-08-18T02:50:00.000+12:00Span, Social Credit and the Democrats are the same...Span, Social Credit and the Democrats are the same party :)<BR/>One of Alliance's big problems is that (no offence to Jill Ovens and Paul Piesse) there is not really anybody in the party anyone has ever heard of, McCarten, Harre, Jackson etc.<BR/>This is one of the big reasons ACT (and to a lesser extent Christian Heritage) were able to get on televised debates in 1996, they had the "personalities", Prebble, Shirley, Quigley (and Graham Capill in CHP).andrewfalloonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06774784538950709098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1124279413471765052005-08-17T23:50:00.000+12:002005-08-17T23:50:00.000+12:00I don't know if it's a right wing conspiracy thing...I don't know if it's a right wing conspiracy thing. If act doesn't win the next election and doesn't disband it may find itself in the same positionStephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05680274679737065263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1124274209662805752005-08-17T22:23:00.000+12:002005-08-17T22:23:00.000+12:00Press have been ignoring our releases in Christchu...Press have been ignoring our releases in Christchurch - even when we are the only party talking about things the Press are running stories on, like the legionaires disease at the hospital. Letters to the editor have been more successful.<BR/><BR/>In essence the only real difference between the Progs (Jim won Wigram last election) and the Alliance is a few thousand votes in Waitakere in 2002.<BR/><BR/>The coverage Destiny gets annoys me - I have often wondered if their looney right economic policy has anything to do with it.Joe Hendrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09004777030451582118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1124257928655471012005-08-17T17:52:00.000+12:002005-08-17T17:52:00.000+12:00NZ First are leaving it a bit late! Noon Monday is...NZ First are leaving it a bit late! Noon Monday is the absolute deadline for submitting candidate nominations.Commie Mutant Traitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06632923951984248888noreply@blogger.com