tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post115554745382663771..comments2023-09-19T19:45:50.854+12:00Comments on Spanblather: Selfish reasons to be leftSpanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16896745511007816190noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1155773506949985792006-08-17T12:11:00.000+12:002006-08-17T12:11:00.000+12:00Span, when the scheme was introduced there was ser...Span, when the scheme was introduced there was serious discussion about extending it to older workers - it was not pursued as it was generally agreed that older workers could still do the same qualification just branded differently. <BR/><BR/>One of the key differences with Modern Apprentices compared with the earlier scheme is the involvement of a co-ordinator who's job it is to make sure the apprentice shows up, works hard etc - younger people in trades do drop out at alarming rates in part becuase they don't always cope with the realities of the workplace. These challenges are less of an issue for older workers.<BR/><BR/>The decline in trade apprentices is entirely consistent with the decline in employment in the trades. Trade based employment, particularly manufacturing, has transformed as the industry has transformed and a combination of contracting out, labour hire, and major growth in manufacturing competition from cheaper economies has meant manufacturing is no longer a major employer, therefore is no longer a major trainer (privatisation of big utilities also had a significant impact, railways, telcos and power companies specifically).backin15https://www.blogger.com/profile/16526191748394549650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1155681743681826282006-08-16T10:42:00.000+12:002006-08-16T10:42:00.000+12:00My Uncle did an Adult Apprenticeship in Canada in ...My Uncle did an Adult Apprenticeship in Canada in his 50s and is now working in NZ and I would support something similar happening here, I suppose it comes down to limited resources as bi15 says above.<BR/><BR/>Call me a snob, but the push in the 80s & 90s to get people into some sort of tertiary education would have, IMHO, been better spent on old fashioned apprenticeships. When I was in the UK the price of plumbers was extortionate and their quality wildly variable, which was a nightmare for homeowners.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1155672813676132772006-08-16T08:13:00.000+12:002006-08-16T08:13:00.000+12:00Here's a link to the Govt's Modern Apprenticeships...Here's a link to the Govt's <A HREF="http://www.tec.govt.nz/education_and_training/modapps/modern_apprenticeships.htm" REL="nofollow">Modern Apprenticeships scheme site</A>. I think apprenticeships are a great idea - if they'd been around when I'd been at school I definitely would have considered going into a trade. <BR/><BR/>However I'd like to see the scheme expanded to have additional places available to those over 21, as I think there are those who probably don't really start thinking about settling down and committing to a career until later in life.<BR/><BR/>On the issue of "free" education having to be funded by taxpayers, I have absolutely no problem with this. Just as I have no problem with "my" tax dollars going towards paying for someone else's hip operation, or roading somewhere that I'll never drive, or even funding the campaign of a political party I would never vote for, as long as those funds are distributed fairly.Spanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16896745511007816190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1155635315044641412006-08-15T21:48:00.000+12:002006-08-15T21:48:00.000+12:00Gerrit, government does provide subsidies for empl...Gerrit, government does provide subsidies for employers to train apprentices. Since taking office, Labour's increase funding for industry training about 120%. Numbers are growing at a strong and sustainable rate across the board. Apprenticeships are difficult to grow at the rate of other training because of the decline in fulltime trade employment in preference for part-time casual and contract labour. Many countries, NZ at the forefront I might add, are looking at alternative models to address this problem however in the end employers have to do more (IMO).backin15https://www.blogger.com/profile/16526191748394549650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1155632071043972442006-08-15T20:54:00.000+12:002006-08-15T20:54:00.000+12:00Span, The point I'm making is that all the free e...Span, The point I'm making is that all the free education has to be paid for by the people working today. The future students will need to have their education paid for by your generation working in New Zealand in tax paying employment.<BR/><BR/>And yes by free education I did mean to include pre, primary and secondary education.<BR/><BR/>Anon, one thing the a government could do is provide a subsidy for employers to train apprentices. (or alternatively set up proper funded training schools)<BR/><BR/>Maybe Span could get a plumber then.<BR/><BR/>Anon again, while the governments have no ideas do you have any?<BR/><BR/>I would like to see Unions get more involved in industry training their members.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1155615742677016722006-08-15T16:22:00.000+12:002006-08-15T16:22:00.000+12:00CMT - yep, I think you're right. And actually I'd...CMT - yep, I think you're right. And actually I'd like to use less oil-based products in general anyway - what's the point in all that we do if we're screwing the planet in the process and leaving nowhere for our descendants to stand?Spanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16896745511007816190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1155615674894985952006-08-15T16:21:00.000+12:002006-08-15T16:21:00.000+12:00bi15 - if I'm completely honest I originally becam...bi15 - if I'm completely honest I originally became involved in active politics because I was keen on a guy, which has got to be a pretty selfish reason indeed. Turned out he wasn't worth the bother, but politics definitely is.Spanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16896745511007816190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1155615609609481032006-08-15T16:20:00.000+12:002006-08-15T16:20:00.000+12:00Gerrit, I agree regarding the "free"-ness of educa...Gerrit, I agree regarding the "free"-ness of education in NZ, but I find it interesting that many people only seem to point this out in regard to tertiary education, forgetting all about schools (and early childhood which is soon to get 20 hours free per week per 3 and 4 year old). I put my footnote regarding the free thing in to try to head off comments like yours at the pass but clearly it didn't work...<BR/><BR/>Good comment Anon, thanks for renewing my faith in you and your nameless buddies :-)Spanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16896745511007816190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1155615558119278872006-08-15T16:19:00.000+12:002006-08-15T16:19:00.000+12:00Dear Sagey, my state controlled education ended at...Dear Sagey, my state controlled education ended at Std 4, so you can't blame the guvmint for that one. Sucks to be you :-PSpanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16896745511007816190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1155613321812369222006-08-15T15:42:00.000+12:002006-08-15T15:42:00.000+12:00And why don't some students complete a degree or q...And why don't some students complete a degree or qualification? <BR/><BR/>For a large part of the problem, you might like to look at the fact that more than two thirds don't receive a student allowance while studying, increasingly more students are being forced to work longer hours during term time and rent, electricity, and food prices continue to increase. Many students can't afford to study and live with such scarce income sources and are therefore forced to drop out of their studies.<BR/><BR/>Labour and National have no ideas for addressing this problem. If we want a highly educated population then we need to fund it front end so we collectively reap the rewards down the track.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1155607170816222462006-08-15T13:59:00.000+12:002006-08-15T13:59:00.000+12:00Hate to burst your bubble but the education is not...Hate to burst your bubble but the education is not "free". <BR/><BR/>While you may not pay for your education at the time you will be paying for future generations education through the taxes you pay as an educated member of society.<BR/><BR/>Even a fence sitting right winger like me agrees that education should be "free" but more emphasis must be put on students to complete their degrees and get into the New Zealand workplace to ensure future students keep getting their "free" education.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1155591059240028732006-08-15T09:30:00.000+12:002006-08-15T09:30:00.000+12:00I'm afraid nothing is going to bring the price of ...I'm afraid nothing is going to bring the price of your petrol down in the long term.Commie Mutant Traitorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06632923951984248888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1155550589405939602006-08-14T22:16:00.000+12:002006-08-14T22:16:00.000+12:00I don't get the purple robot thing sorry.Maia's po...I don't get the purple robot thing sorry.<BR/><BR/>Maia's post is very interesting, I've commented on it on her blog also.<BR/><BR/>I think that we're mostly attracted to issues both because of principles and personal interest. Free education was one that was important to me for a long time too, not least of all 'cause I wanted to avoid a debt. <BR/><BR/>That said, I think many issues transcend personal interest. There's a fantastic line in T S Elliot's Murder in the Cathederal that springs to mind: "The last temptation is the greatest treason, To do the right thing for the wrong reason."backin15https://www.blogger.com/profile/16526191748394549650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7380804.post-1155550056805183172006-08-14T22:07:00.000+12:002006-08-14T22:07:00.000+12:00Thats the problem with publically owned education ...Thats the problem with publically owned education systems. They can't teach you to spell publicly properly.sagenzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01744450094262287770noreply@blogger.com