The leftward and other blatherings of Span (now with Snaps!)

Monday, July 16, 2007

Harry Potter and the Open Thread

In honour of the release of the fifth film (Order of the Phoenix), and of course the impending arrival of the seventh book (The Deathly Hallows), here is an open thread for us all to dispute and discourse.

Some reading too:

Maia has given some predictions in her review post about how the story will end. Mine are:

  1. Harry dies but is not a horcrux.
  2. Snape isn't evil and Dumbledore was pleading with him to kill him, and stop Draco from doing it. (Here I agree with Maia.)
  3. Draco will ultimately wimp out of doing something really bad and be redeemed.
  4. Sirius somehow comes back, but in some not fully alive way.
  5. All the little relationships amongst the kids that are being lined up hopefully don't get tied up at the end. It's just not realistic for everyone to find their life partner at high school!

Ok folks, what do you reckon?

(Pic Via)

* Ooopsie, thanks Cathi for the correction


Maia said...

See I think Harry is a Horcrux, but won't die. I kind of think she won't kill Harry, Ron or Hermione, but secondary characters will drop like flies (half the Weasley family, Luna and/or Neville, McGonagall, Hagrid, Tonks - just to start with)

Span said...

I don't think Harry is a horcrux because to create a horcrux Voldemort has to split his soul by killing someone and do some special magic at the same time. He was going to create his last horcrux when he killed Harry, according to Dumbledore's theory, and as he didn't kill Harry he therefore couldn't have split his soul (again) at that time.

I can't see how Rowling can not kill Harry, in terms of living the rest of her life, to be honest. I think you are right about minor characters though - I'm going to need a couple of hankies to get through 700 plus pages of killing people off.

Ghet said...

One of the current threads at System has also turned into a discussion on the HP books, and though I think it's pretty much done its dash there, there's some interesting stuff on their 'value'.

I can't believe we're actually considering buying TWO copies of 'Deathly Hallows' so our kids can both read it at the same time.

I can see where you're coming from with killing Harry off, but I still don't think she will. The books have always been, determinedly, one for each school year, each covering a year, making a finite series. Rowling's always seemed like a bit of a stroppy bitch (this is a compliment) and I don't see her caving to pressure to write 'the grown-up years'. It'd be such a freaking disaster...

The thing that's been really bugging me since I wrote that blog, though, is the near-total elimination of Ginny from the movies. Is the relationship in Half-Blood Prince therefore just going to come completely out of the blue? She's such a great character, and a good balance for Hermione in terms of female role models.

Commie Mutant Traitor said...

Ah, but _Voldemort_ died (or at least his corporeal body did) when he tried to create the last horcrux, satisfying the death requirement of the spell.

Cathi said...

I'm not a Potter fan, and don't know what a Horcrux is. Heck, I didn't even know it was there for the knowing

But Span, dear Span, even I know her name is Emma Watson. Who is this Emma Brown imposter?

Span said...

Ooops, thanks Cathi. Sorry about that.

I'm not sure that you can create a horcrux for yourself through splitting your soul by killing yourself? Also he couldn't have been killed because of the other horcruxes, hence Voldemort wasn't really dead. Surely powerful magic like horcrux creation requires actual death? But seeing as how it's all imaginary I suspect we will never know unless your theory turns out to be right CMT.

Which begs the question - who will Rowling get to do the long explanatory passages towards the end of Book 7 now that she has killed off Dumbledore?

And Ginny is a great character. I really liked how they showed her as being quite a powerful witch in the Order flick.

Ryan Sproull said...

1. Harry and Hermione finally end up together, leaving Ginny and Ron in a twisted incestuous relationship that Trelawney foretells will give rise to the greatest Quidditch player of all.

2. Harry realises that in the whole previous six books, he has never seen both Uncle Vernon and Snape in the same room at the same time.

3. Because they're the same person. Sure, that's technically part of the last spoiler, but I couldn't get up enough dramatic pause without...

4. Starting a new entry. See? Ellipses just don't do the job.

5. Dumbledore dies! Wait. Hold on.

6. There is a new Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher: England football manager Sven-Goran Eriksson!

7. In a chapter that really should have been edited out, JK Rowling inserts herself in a terrible cross-over fan-fic sex scene involving both Voldemort and Captain Picard.

8. Harry says his first swear. But it's understandable in context. After escaping from imminent death to another plane of existence, Voldemort follows him, bringing a legion of evil snakes. In a climactic struggle, wands locked in combat, Harry declares that he really really wants Voldemort to get those snakes off his plane.

webweaver said...

There's an excellent editorial on Mugglenet that argues (quite convincingly) that although Harry isn't a Horcrux, his scar is (or was).

The murder required to create the Horcrux would have been that of Harry's dad.

The theory goes that Voldemort intended Harry to be the 6th Horcrux, with the 7th part remaining within Voldemort.

Harry didn't have to survive Avada Kedavra, because that's not what Voldy used, but rather the curse required to create the Horcrux itself, which was deflected by Harry's mum, killing her. The rebound created Harry's scar, as a Horcrux - part of Harry but not within him and not replacing his soul.

The rebounding curse also destroyed Voldemort's remaining piece of soul, although he didn't die because of the other Horcruxes - and it reduced the Potter home to rubble. Avada Kedavra doesn't appear to cause physical damage (except for death) which is why the author of the editorial thinks the curse wasn't Avada Kedavra.

The logic of Voldemort wanting to make Harry into a Horcrux is that, as he assumed the prophesy to be true, if it came to a final showdown between himself and Horcrux Harry (assuming that making Harry into a Horcrux didn't kill him outright), whoever wins will hold the final part of Voldemort's soul within himself and so Voldemort is guaranteed immortality.

As he failed to achieve this, and lost the last part of his soul in the process, he had to obtain blood from Harry at the end of GoF in order to get the Horcrux/soul back again, and bring himself back to "human" form. It's also an explanation for the look of triumph in Dumbledore's eye when Harry tells him what happened in the graveyard, as Dumbly would know that the scar no longer contains the Horcrux.

Phew! Editorial starts here if you wanna read it.

Oh - and I'm sure Snape is a supa-sekrit double agent, working for the Good Guys.

Make Tea Not War said...

Shame on me. I can't even remember what a horcrux is so my predictions have to be seen in that light but here they are anyway:

I seem to remember not being quite convinced that Dumbledore was dead though can't remember why.

Agree Snape will turn out to be good.

I think Draco will be redeemed somehow too.

I think the couples relationships will probably be lasting as unrealistic in the real world as that may be. Remember Harry's parents got together at Hogwarts.

It could go either way but I incline towards the view that Harry isn't going to be killed at the end. It would just be too depressing and out of keeping with the genres Rowling is working within- school stories, children/young adult fantasy. That said he probably won't get a straight forward happy ending either.

Span said...

Maybe Harry could turn into a squib instead?? I feel that he is somehow Doomed...

Wow ww, that's a pretty cool theory about the scar/horcrux stuff. I shall have to think some more on that.

Sure Harry's parents got together at Hogwarts, but I am going to throw up all over the final chapter if Rowling partners everyone up (especially if they are all hetero).

morgue said...

Snape is the most interesting character. I don't think Snape is "good" and I don't think he is "bad". I think Rowling is writing him as confused and damaged, and meant his murder of Dumbledore as a genuine act of wickedness. However, Dumbledore had that in place as his master plan - letting Snape betray him thoroughly is the only way to get him back into Voldy's circle. Which is where he needs to be so when Harry turns up and he has a crisis of conscience, he can turn and take out Voldemort.

I just made up that whole theory on the spot. I will change my mind tomorrow no doubt :-)

Apathy Jack said...

You people have an illness...

Commie Mutant Traitor said...

I had hopes about Harry's sexuality after book 5 (Dudley's homophobic taunts at the start raised the possibility, and Harry's attitude to Cho was fairly ambivalent), but book 6 pretty much dashed them. Not much chance of Harry/Draco turning out to be canon now.

Lyndon said...

I just made up that whole theory on the spot.

... you may also have seen it in another movie series entirely.

morgue said...

Lyndon understands my brain better than I do :-)

Make Tea Not War said...

So- has anyone finished it yet?

Span said...

Not me, I'm about ten chapters in. I've bought some easy make stuff for dinner the next two nights though to clear the evenings for reading ;-)

Maia has a good spoilerific review up apparently, at Capitalism Bad, but I'm not reading it 'til I'm done.